[Shinchonji-Lee Man Hee] Rev. Kim’s opinions about SCJ’s interpretations of Revelation and SCJ’s rebuttal

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Rev. Kim’s opinions about SCJ’s interpretations of Revelation and SCJ’s rebuttal

(This is an English translation of part three of a series of articles that was published on Dec. 15, 2008 in the World Mission Cultural Newspaper)

Criticism against SCJ’s interpretations of Revelation: The woman clothed with the sun and the male child (Rv 12:1-6)

A review of Manhee Lee’s arbitrary interpretations of Revelation by Rev. Kim [an editorialist for the World Mission Cultural newspaper, Kyoung-Shin professor, and pastor at X Korean Presbyterian Church)

1. A correct understanding of Rv 12:1-6

(1) This is how Rv 12 begins: “Then a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was screaming in labor pains, struggling to give birth.” (Rv 12:1-2)

(2) The following explains the location and the main theme of Rv 12:1-6.

The focus of Rv 1-11 is on the sufferings that the churches of the world must experience, Rv 12-22 reflects on the causes and the consequences of their suffering.

Revelation 12 is the beginning of the second part of Revelation, which has the same theme as the first part. Part 2 simply gives a more detailed explanation of the main theme of part 1.

Revelation 12, just like Rv 13, 10, and 11, stops making constant references to plagues. Instead, it portrays the intense struggle between the church and Satan—between God’s kingdom and Satan’s forces. This struggle is the main point of Rv 12.

(3) Three conventional interpretations regarding the woman clothed with the sun and the male child to whom she gives birth

This woman could symbolize Mary, and her son could represent Jesus Christ. This would mean that Rv 12:1-6 is a historical account of Jesus’ birth. On the other hand, the woman could represent the Jewish people or Judaism and her son could represent Christian churches. Lastly, the woman could also represent Christian churches and her son could represent Christ or the churches that function like the body of Christ.

I would say that I lean more toward the third option because Rv 12:1-5 makes references to the nativity and the ascension of Christ. Revelation 12:7 explains further about the woman’s children, who are believers of Christ.

(4) Christian churches are symbolized by the woman clothed with the sun (v. 1). This description denotes the features and characteristics of Christian churches.

Christian churches are seemingly unsteady and fluctuate over time. The moon, however, symbolizes eternity, and the crown with the twelve stars indicates that churches are the chosen ones of God. Thus, the scripture shows that churches are sacred and worthwhile places.

(5) The woman is screaming in labor pains (v. 2).

The former Israelites had to experience labor pains long ago. In the same way, the new Israelites also have to undergo these pains. Longing for salvation from Christ, Christian churches are always striving to save people’s lives. In the midst of their efforts, they cannot avoid undergoing these pains.

(6) The woman fled into the wilderness (v. 6).

The fact that the woman flees into the wilderness shows that churches will be always under God’s care and protection. Historically, there have been several cases when churches had to take refuge. Churches, however, have achieved victory through the help of God and through perseverance against persecution.

According to verse 4, the dragon attempts to devour the male child as soon as he was born. This scene shows how aggressive the dragon has been toward Christian churches, but in spite of all his efforts, the dragon fails in the end. The reasons for his failure are three-fold: (1) The birth of the male child itself reveals the dragon’s failure. (2) Despite the dragon’s attempt to devour the child, the child was snatched up to God and his throne. Hence, the male child was safely protected from the dragon. (3) The fact that the dragon was unable to harm the woman also reveals his failure.

As stated above, Rv 12 shows that the churches of this world have continually fought against Satan, and that they will achieve victory with Christ in the end.

2. According to Manhee Lee, the male child symbolizes himself and the woman symbolizes a man named Mr. Yoo.

(1) Denying the conventional and orthodox interpretations, Manhee Lee simply says that he is the male child who will rule all nations.

The scripture says, “She [the woman] fled into the wilderness where a place had been prepared for her by God, so she could be taken care of for 1,260 days.” According to Mr. Lee, the woman appeared as Mr. Yoo, and Mr. Yoo went to the USA to study theology for three and a half years.

This is such an absurd interpretation! Even worse, believers in SCJ are vulnerable enough to accept this nonsense!

Below is an excerpt from Mr. Lee’s book, Complete Interpretations of Revelation, the Way, Shinchonji Press. [On its first page this book states, “This book is ‘the way’ to make known the new heaven and new earth, the holy city, New Jerusalem, the Lord Jesus, and the one whom he sent.” Didn’t Mr. Lee mean that the book of Revelation and his book simply exist to make him known?]

“Regarding the woman clothed with the sun, spiritually a woman symbolizes a pastor. The sun represents the truth. This is how the holy son, Jesus, was born: He was of the holy spirit that came to Mary (Lk 1:35). The scripture also says that the woman was clothed with the moon under her feet. Just as the moon reflects and emits light from the sun, the moon symbolizes evangelists who deliver the truth after receiving it from the woman clothed with the sun [the woman clothed with the sun is probably indicating Mr. Lee]. Since a crown of twelve stars was on her head, the twelve stars represent the leaders of the twelve tribes. In other words, the sun, moon, and stars play the similar roles as a father, mother, and sons. The sun, moon, and stars, therefore, are figurative language indicating a pastor, evangelists, and believers in a church (the Tabernacle Temple = Jerusalem).”

(2) Mr. Lee says that his teacher, Mr. Yoo was a betrayer and that Mr. Yoo represented the woman who gave birth to the male child.

Below is an excerpt (pg. 187) from one of Mr. Lee’s books, The Physical Fulfillment of Revelation, Shinchonji Press.

“Spiritually speaking, Jesus was born to John the Baptist (Mt 3:6). Jesus wanted to work with John the Baptist, but Jesus had to take a different direction because of John’s suspicion about him (Jn 3:30). Today’s Samson [Samson means small sun, and it is used as a spiritual name for Mr. Yoo. Mr. Lee and the members of SCJ refer to Mr. Yoo, who was the leader of the Tabernacle Temple, as “Samson.”] also gave birth to a male child, who later appeared as one of Mr. Yoo’s disciples and as the witness [Mr. Lee claims that he is the witness.] of Revelation. Despite the witness’ constant requests to stand firm together, Mr. Yoo refused and set out to the US to study theology for three and a half years. This will be pointed out again in relation to Rv 13 but when Mr. Yoo went to study theology (i.e. be taken care of), it not the work of God. In fact, Mr. Yoo was fed and nurtured by vultures. Put differently, Mr. Yoo received the mark of the beast on his forehead by acting this way.”

As clearly seen from this excerpt, Mr. Lee is denouncing his teacher, Mr. Yoo as a betrayer. No doubt, this harsh criticism and denunciation of Mr. Yoo are frequently found in all of Mr. Lee’s books. Mr. Lee’s Shinchonji church places its roots in the Tabernacle Temple. Mr. Lee thinks that he can be regarded as a leader or even as a divine being by renouncing and denigrating his teacher, Mr. Yoo. For this reason, it is not surprising that Mr. Lee insults Mr. Yoo, labeling him as a betrayer who received the mark of the beast.

(3) Despite Mr. Lee’s interpretations, the woman clothed with the sun did not betray; she is under God’s protection (Rv 6:13-17).

How can the woman be under God’s protection? Simply, the woman is not Mr. Yoo, as Mr. Lee claims, nor is the male child with the authority to rule all nations with an iron scepter Mr. Lee.

Mr. Lee was originally from Tae Sun Park’s organization. Later, he became a member of the Tabernacle Temple along with two men named Mr. Yoo. Much later, he lifted himself up as the leader of SCJ church. Can’t he say anything he wants? Claiming to be the male child with the authority of the iron scepter is not an original idea. Many cult leaders like Mr. Park, Mr. Moon (the leader of Moonies), Mr. Park, etc. have already used this scheme. The male child born of the woman is our savior and lord Jesus Christ.

2. SCJ’s refutation of Rev. Kim’s review

The following is SCJ’s rebuttal to Rev. Kim’s review

● Counter-evidence against part 3 of Rev. Kim’s review of SCJ’s interpretations of Revelation

The sealed scroll (the revelation) awaits an appointed time (Hb 2:2-3), and no one in heaven, or on earth, or under the earth is able to read or look inside it (Rv 5:1-5). Is Rev. Kim preaching the book of Revelation according to what he saw and heard after receiving the command of Jesus? Or is he making Jesus a liar and the Bible a book of lies? Is Rev. Kim himself the Jesus who breaks the seven seals of the scroll and opens it? Is Rev. Kim the one who receives the revealed scroll and Jesus’ commands and who sees and hears all the chapters of Revelation? If Rev. Kim does not fall into any of the above categories, why is Rev. Kim judging SCJ Church of Jesus with the word of Revelation, which he does not even understand?

According to Rev. Kim’s claims regarding Rv 12:1-2, there are three conventional interpretations about the woman clothed with the sun and her son. Rev. Kim expressed his approval for the third option. The following are Rev. Kim’s three conventional ways of explaining Rv 12:1-2.

① The woman is Mary, and the male child is Jesus.

② The woman represents the Jewish people or Judaism, and the male child represents Christian churches.

③ The woman represents Christian churches, and the male child is Christ and the churches that act as the body of Christ.

According to Rev. Kim, Rv 12:1-5 explains the nativity and ascension of Christ, and the phrase “the rest of her children” (Rv 12:17) indicate believers.

There are many different types of commentaries on the book of Revelation expressing many different opinions, often quite different from Rev. Kim’s opinions. Doesn’t this mean that all of these different claims are arbitrary and full of wickedness? If all these other Revelation commentaries are full of wickedness, why did Rev. Kim neglect to mention and criticize them too?

Rev. Kim should repent and humble himself. It is only when he learns with a humble heart and is born again that he will obtain salvation.

The following are SCJ’s refutation of Rev. Kim’s review.

According to the first opinion, the woman is Mary and the male child is Jesus. The woman, her male child, and the dragon, however, are found in heaven, not in Bethlehem. Obviously the dragon was not in the manger in Bethlehem. If the woman is Mary, and the male child is Jesus, where is the male child born in Rv 12 now? Does it mean that Jesus will be born again to the woman and ascend again to heaven at the time of Revelation’s fulfillment? Mary has never been dressed with the sun, moon, and twelve stars. In addition, the group of the dragon with the seven heads and ten horns was not in the manger where Jesus was born. Wasn’t Jesus born in the manger at the time of the first coming?

Since the nativity of Christ was already fulfilled at the first coming, the first opinion—claiming that the woman clothed with the sun in Rv 12 is Mary and that her male child is Jesus—is no different from the theory of re-incarnation in Buddhism. The first opinion, therefore, the seed of weeds.

I would like to ask a question to those who agree with the first opinion. Have you seen the woman, male child, and the dragon in Rv 12? If not, how can you say that you can testify about the events of Rv 12 and how can you also persecute those who hold different views?

According to the second opinion, the woman represents the Jewish people or Judaism, and the male child represents Christian churches. How can a woman, presented in the singular, represent many Jewish people or the entire religion of Judaism? How can the male child, also presented in the singular, represent many churches?

According to the third opinion, the woman represents Christian churches, and her male child is Christ. Rev. Kim admits that he agrees with this opinion.

The woman in Rv 12 cannot be viewed as Christian churches. If the woman represents churches, how can churches fly to the wilderness with the help of the two wings of a great eagle? Furthermore, if the child is Christ, why would he not stay at the church to carry out the work of salvation? Why would he go up to heaven as soon as he is born?

Churches cannot be dressed with the sun, moon, and stars, nor can they have two wings of an eagle or hands and feet. Churches cannot leap, walk, nor fly.

The woman in Rv 12 is in heaven, which represents the tabernacle where the events of Revelation take place (Rv 13:6).

The sun, moon, and stars, which clothe the woman, represent Jacob’s family (Gn 37:9-11). The sun symbolized Jacob, the moon symbolized his wife, and the twelve stars symbolized Jacob’s twelve sons. Because Jacob’s name was changed to Israel after he overcame, the woman clothed with the sun in Rv 12 represents a pastor of Spiritual Israel. Revelation 12 describes how this woman flees into the wilderness to escape the dragon (serpent) just like John the Baptist did at the time of the first coming (Mt 3:1-4; Mt 11:7-14).

In addition, when Rev. Kim claimed that the male child born of the woman is Christ, he surely meant Jesus “Christ.” Is Rev. Kim, then, a proponent of Buddhist re-incarnation? Is he saying that Jesus will again be born of a woman? The birthplace for this child in Rv 12 is clearly heaven, not Bethlehem. Jesus was born in a manger in Bethlehem, but this male child is born in front of a dragon that has the seven heads and ten horns. Since there were no dragons with seven heads and ten horns in the manger where Jesus was born, it is clear that this male child is not born in a Bethlehem manger. Neither was Jesus’ mother Mary clothed in the sun, moon, and stars.

This male child is the one who overcomes Satan’s Nicolaitans (Rv 2). The one who overcomes in Rv 2 and 3 becomes the son of God (Rv 21:7). He is the one who receives the iron scepter from Jesus (Rv 2:26-27). The scripture prophesies that he will rule all nations with the iron scepter. This prophecy is fulfilled when the child overcomes the dragon in Rv 12. Revelation 2:26-27 states that Jesus will grant the one who overcomes the iron scepter. This makes it clear that the male child to whom Jesus gives the iron scepter cannot be Jesus himself. The scripture also says that the male child will be snatched up to the throne. The throne is referring to the throne that Jesus promised to give the one who overcomes (Rv 3)—the throne upon which God’s throne in the spiritual world descends (Rv 4). In other words, the male child is the one who overcomes, and he will sit with Jesus on Jesus’ throne to rule all nations (Rv 3:21). Where is Jesus’ throne situated? It is at the figurative Mt. Zion (Rv 14), the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony (Rv 15). Because this is the testimony of the one who saw and heard all the events of Revelation and who received Jesus’ commands, you can rest assured that this testimony is true.

All believers who meditate on the Bible today must seek the male child in Rv 12. Receiving his testimony is the only way to receive salvation. Additionally, if those who have overcome the beast, his image, and the number of his name (Rv 12; Rv 13) are gathered in the tabernacle in Rv 15, everyone must find the tabernacle to receive, believe in, and then proclaim the truth. There should be no longer any false testimony just like that of Rev. Kim, who recklessly speaks without having seen and heard anything and without having received any commands from Jesus. The lies are nothing more than the seed of weeds. The devil is the one who sows the weeds, and those born from his weeds are his children (Mt 13). We must all receive the revelation of Jesus (i. e. Jesus’ revealed word) and be born again with God’s seed (Lk 8:11; Jn 3:3-6; 1 Pt 1:23).

No matter how much effort Rev. Kim puts into gathering information for his interpretation of Revelation, his words cannot be the truth. Because he has been persecuting SCJ, I would like to ask him a question as to why he is not obeying Jesus’ commandments? Both God and Jesus commanded us to love, forgive, and bless others (1 Jn 4:7-21; Mt 6:14-15; Mt 18:21-35). They even told us to love our enemies (Mt 5:44). Didn’t Jesus command us not to persecute, criticize, and judge others (Mt 5:10-12; Mt 7:1-5)? Why is Rev. Kim not obeying Jesus’ words? Disobedience to the Lord’s commandments is betrayal. Aren’t those who are disobeying Jesus’ commandments simply proving that they belong to Satan?

The three conventional views regarding Rv 12: The woman clothed with the sun symbolizes Mary, the Jewish people and Judaism, or Christian churches. The male child represents Jesus, Christian churches, or Christ. These testimonies are confusing and hollow. Aren’t these testimonies simply foolish, rash remarks?

Despite all kinds of persecution, SCJ is endeavoring to help people to understand the woman and the male child in Rv 12 through the revealed word.